Friday, 3 June 2016

Stay Or Go?




Ok, now I know that usually on a Friday we have Nom or Vom, but lets face it, we have a lot more serious issues going on at the moment. (I might throw in a picture of Tom Hardy at the end if I get enough comments) 

We have a massive vote coming up soon and honestly, I genuinely feel that I do not know enough on the situation to have the responsibility of a vote that could be the difference between staying in Europe or leaving the EU.


Both sides seem to be using scare tactics, inflammatory statements and misdirection to try to sway our votes and I am so confused. Even the X Factor lets you watch people sing for 10  weeks before you "vote" for a winner and I am LESS prepared for this EU vote than I am for X Factor. (and I don't vote in the X Factor) 

So who better to ask than you guys.

You can even use the ANON option, (As long as you promise not to call me any names) I will approve them. but I am interested in how the people who are reading my blog will be voting, and the reasons behind your voting thoughts.

Lets see if we can cut through the bullshit and the lies and help each other with facts and information,


Let me know your thoughts,





PS


You're welcome xxxxx 

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25 comments

  1. I am voting to stay in. The economic and imigration arguments hold little sway with me one way or another. It is the range of workers rights (especially for women) that have been 'forced' on us by Europe that is my most importantly issue.
    Without the EU regulating our government we could easily see a return to unregulated working hours, reduced maternity leave and pay, loss of paternity leave and much more.

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  2. It's a no brainer. Britain should definitely stay in the EU. For once I agree with Cameron. It would be total stupidity to alienate ourselves from Europe, because that would be the result of us leaving. We are a much stronger country as we are part of the EU. To believe otherwise is to have a rather foolish attitude towards the importance of our tiny little British Isles. There are so many benefits for us to remain in Europe. I cannot think of any advantages to leave.

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  3. I vote by post and I've voted to stay in. I don't believe even if they get enough notes that we will leave the EU. My reason for staying is that we get lots of funding from the European social fund for buildings, projects (that are educational based). However I also think we are stronger together. I think there needs to be clearer or better understanding on the difference between migrants and refugees and I think that's a big reason as to why people want to leave. Good luck with what you decide and no matter what make sure you vote. 😀

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  4. As Tracey said our working rights are high in my agenda. If the current government could squeeze more money out of treating us badly they wouldn't think twice about it. (perhaps I'd worry less about this under a labour/liberal government?)

    Also I'm from a deprived area and see first hand how EU funding has helped all sorts of regeneration and local community projects. If the government was handling that pot of cash my northern town wouldn't get a look in.

    I'm voting stay in

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  5. I voted (by post) in. I work for a public institution that relies heavily on EU research council funding. Without it, a hell of a lot of universities will fall off a financial cliff. We'd lose millions. And then we'd have to go cap in hand to the USA, and the East for money, because we punch too high above our weight to fund our own.

    If I thought for one second that any of the money we send into the EU now, might actually get spent where we need it, rather than lining the pockets of the politicians and their buddies, I might have seen it differently. But we've already seen they like the money far too much...

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  6. In. Honestly, so much of the legal protection women, disabled and low paid workers have is due to the EU, and our current government would love to just sweep all that away. I would be genuinely worried about how much worse things would be under this government without the EU having some sway.

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  7. Staying in. I work in science on mainly EU supported grants. No one can tell us if we will be out of jobs if we leave as no one can tell us whether the funding will be safe or not. Also, I don't fancy another recession because no matter what brexit peeps say, the economy will suffer under uncertainty before they sort it all out. Plus who wants to side with Boris?!?!?!

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  8. I'm voting IN for more or less the same reasons as Tracey Abrahams. X

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  9. I want to vote IN, if I get my postal vote, which is now starting to worry me. I believe this is a serious issue that has been thrown into the public vote for the wrong reasons and in the wrong way. There isn't enough info and a lot of people are going to vote out of fear, or because they have this ideal of a free Britain. Sadly, we live in a world in which divisions and selfish thinking get us nowhere. It is good to have "allies", it's good to belong to a diverse community. We benefit a lot from the EU. Personally I benefited from the Erasmus program which gave me a grant to study abroad. I got medical treatment in Greece, Belgium and Germany thanks to the EU. I'm a writer and a translator and my clients are in Belgium, France and Spain. With no EU agreements, it's likey that my clients will have to charge extra charges to pay my invoices, or I will have to fork out the difference. It's hard enough being a freelance person in this economy. I do like the EU, even with its weird regulations and questionable set-up. Nothing is perfect, but the EU does work.

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  10. In - better the devil you know! Don't know enough about politics but instinctively leaving seems the wrong choice...
    My 11 year old sees it as messing up Geography if we leave because we can't pick up our island & put it somewhere else & my husband wonders what would happen to England football & how they would be in the Euros 😉 x

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  11. I've postal voted in.

    Economically no-one knows but leaving will certainly increase uncertainty and for the leavers positive outcomes to happen certain assumptions about trade deals need to happen. If they don't we are in for a rough ride.

    On immigration, personally I think immigration is mainly beneficial, but even if I didn't people's expectation seems wrong, the leave leaflet we had through the other day showed middle eastern looking men crossing a fence not EU migrants and I saw someone tweeting about being able to "see" lots of immigrants in A&E. Immigration is not one thing, we have free EU movement which we will probably have to keep in order to get trade deals, and the loss of those will cost a lot more than migrants cost. We get no more illegal immigrants because of Europe, in fact we may get more if we leave, France has to work with us on the camps in Calais because we are in Europe together, it won't necessarily have to help if we leave. Of course a lot of those want to come here because they live in countries that used to be part of the British Empire, a costs to us of trying to rule half the world. Legal economic immigrants from other countries (presumably these are the ones you can "see" in A&E as they have brown faces. Doctors and nurses from India, Africa and the Phillipines won't change, they now pay a visitor premium to cover their NHS costs anyway.

    The only other leave reason seems to be Sovereignty. For me, sovereignty only works if it is applied at a global granularity that works. In a modern global internet economy, making small nation trade and business rules is as effective as putting a sign on your bedroom door is at stopping your sister going in to nick your stuff.

    So to me, leaving gives us uncertain changes to immigration, meaningless sovereignty and a very uncertain economic future.

    Jonathan

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  12. Right, I'll start with the caveats that I am voting to remain and I spent three years working for an MEP.

    So...

    The remain side is awful. Absolutely awful. We have Osborne, a man who has gotten each and every one of his economic forecasts as Chancellor wrong, predicting all sorts of things if we leave. The simple fact is that we don't know. So he is talking piffle.

    Then there is Cameron. You can tell his heart isn't in it. He's a dead man walking and he knows it.

    Labour are too timid to join in. Burned from the Better Together fiasco in Scotland, they don't want to chum up too close to the Tories so are just being quiet. And this is wrong because they should be full throated supporters of the EU. Corbyn has played this incredibly wrong.

    The SNP, Plaid and Greens too just aren't doing enough either.

    The Scottish referendum, on the Yes side, saw a broad based and positive campaign taking in artists, businesses, unions, charities and others to make a strong and hopefilled case.

    The Remain campaign should have been the same. It's not. Possibly because no one wanted to associate with Cameron and Gideon.

    On the leave campaign? Well, that should have been about sovereignty and the democratic failings of the EU. They could have built a positive campaign around it it. But, no. It's been "Vote Leave or we will literally have one billion immigrants (many of them a darker skin tone then you) and they all want YOUR JOB. And house. And car. And dog. Which they will eat. Because all foreigners are nasty types.

    Both sides of the campaign are dominated by rich, middle aged white men. No wonder the whole country is turned off. Lord knows I am and I worked in the European Parliament for three years.

    But, how to vote? It's easy, really. Cut through all the crap and all the nonsense and look at one argument from the Brexiteers.

    "Leave the EU and we can cut away red tape that is costing UK business billions"

    You know what that "red tape" is? It's maternity rights. It's paternity rights. It's the right not to be sacked on a whim. It's the right not to be bullied by your boss. It's the right to sick leave, bereavement leave, parental leave and holidays. It's the right to work in a safe and secure environment. It's the right not to have to work more than 48 hours a week unless you agree to it in writing. It's the right to have a decent work/life balance.

    That's the red tape the Brexiters want to get rid of. That, for me, is the best reason to vote Remain.

    The EU guarantees us rights that Farage, Gove and Johnson would ditch in a nano-second because profit always comes first.

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    Replies
    1. *applauds and agrees*

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    2. Michael, that's brilliant, and I've totally stolen it.

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  13. In! I echo all of the comments above and frankly it scares me with the unknown if we vote out.

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  14. https://pegandhammer.wordpress.com/2016/06/02/the-eu-referendum-its-really-quite-simple/ I want to show an opposing opinion. I am still wholly undecided. Even if we vote to leave, it won't happen overnight it will take a decade, maybe longer. Part of me wants to vote leave out of sheer curiosity over what would happen.

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  15. I completely agree with every point that has been made above with only a few additions that mainland Britons might not consider.

    The immigration point is ridiculous because people forget that the UK does actually have a land based border with a foreign country (Ireland & Northern Ireland). In order to stop unlimited migration they would have to completely realise that border which they are never going to do so they will literally be leaving the back door open for illegal migration.

    On the hums rights aspect they have already announced (pre campaign) that one of the first things they would look to do is abolish the human rights act and rebuild it from the ground up, presumably with far less protections for the average person. There are several lawsuits happening throughout the country to try and bring parts of the U.K. in line with EU protections and, whilst it's ridiculous that they're even needed, if we leave those lawsuits would be null & void. Eg not all parts of the U.K. Enjoy equal marriage of full reproductive rights of their bodies. Mainlanders celebrate themselves for having these but it's easy to forget about those who don't.

    I've also seen a lot of people on the leave campaign talk about the Norway model and trying to stay in the eea. They don't mention that Norway pays more per head for this honour and has zero say in the rules that they have to follow. They also pay 45% tax to pay for the stuff that they lose from eu funding and I'm pretty sure none of us would appreciate doing that.

    So yeah, it's a pretty easy IN for me. The ideals of sovereignty and getting rid of the nanny state are fun and all that but it can get very lonely out on your own and, let's face it, some people really do need nannied.

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  16. I may have just stolen that too. I'm very heartened that so many people are voting to stay in. I know Europe isn't perfect, the EU needs a kick up then bum, and maybe, just maybe, if we stay in we can effect change from within. We certainly can't if we leave.

    And I don't trust the Tories to look after anyone else's interests but their own if we dump EU red tape and gain 'independence'

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  17. This is brilliant! Thanks so much to everyone who has commented, I seriously had no idea which way to vote before reading this! It's way better than any of the promises/reasons that either side have come up with!!! I was going to vote OUT but now I think I've changed my mind......=) Thanks guys!! xoxo

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  18. I like change (I get bored) and I was pretty angry with the EU for how it treated Greece and its democratic mandate, and how it doesn't seem able to make its own members deliver on the promises they made when they joined to take asylum seekers in proportion. I'm actually disgusted to be part of a system that treats these people so badly. So I was kinda Leave.

    Then I saw the people who are Leave, and they seem like egotistical children, in for their own gain and they 'just want to do what they want'.

    The UK consensus has broken down, we swing madly between Tories who want to steal the public sector so their mates can make money from it, to Labour investing in schools, the NHS, Sure Start and so on. Then the Tories dismantle it, then Labour put it back again. It's not good, economically, to swing around like that. Something that puts limits on that seems good, atm.

    In my heart, I'm European (I'm actually, genetically, completely English, from the midlands). I'm certainly not American. I seek out European films and de-prioritise Hollywood. A local band rebranded themselves 'Americana' and I never wanted to see them again.

    Europe seems poised to reject TTIP.

    So I've come down to core values .. we're better together. We're European. Don't leave me alone with these xenophobes! I'm Remain.

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  19. I'm like you I'm still unsure. Both campaigns have done a shit job. I was originally leaning toward leave mainly for economic reasons as I hadn't heard anything great from the remain campaign to justify the cost of being in the EU. I totally really care about immigration, and I hate the fact Brexit, their supporters and opposition seem to focus on that heavily.

    Some of the comments in here have been great to balance things out with out all the BS (I have a friend who is a passionate Brexit supporter) Especially the comments in here about Norway and their tax.

    So ... I guess I'm still undecided! :S

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  20. I want to do more research on it but I'm leaning towards In. Like one of the Anon's said better the devil you know.

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  21. I feel a lot of the older generation will be voting out. My parents and grandparents have all said the same excuse 'you weren't here when we weren't in the EU. Britain was better then'
    A lot of these people are retired and leaving the EU won't effect them as much as our generation and the next. The uncertainty scares me, as no one really knows what will happen if we exit. If we stay we know what's going to happen, and no one needs to be afraid of their rights, their jobs or their livelihoods. It's a risk I'm certainly not willing to take.

    It's a shame their isn't a simple breakdown of the pros and cons readily available for everyone to read up on to make an informed desision. Scaremongering doesn't help anyone.

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  22. I'm voting out.
    I'm voting out because we have a parliamentary democracy in the UK which is different to the political system used by the EU. In Europe the MEPs have about as much power as our House of Lords (they can't table a motion to introduce or repeal legislation) and the real power lies in the hands of the commissioners who are not voted for, they are appointed. If we vote to stay in, my fear is that our government will become even more pointless,our style of democracy will be swept aside and we will lose our national identity.

    Watch Brexit The Movie on YouTube if you want to see what I mean; it's an eye opener.

    If the decision is out, we will be sure that we can keep our parliamentary system and can change the government every 5 years if we like. Vote in and there is a real risk that we'll lose this and power will transfer to the EU. Remember, voters can't do diddly squat about EU commissioners and that's the way they want it.

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Due to increased spam comments I am now having to moderate the comments I receive. I will do my best to get them approved quickly so please, carry on commenting as every time you comment a kitten smiles.

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